Inhabit Series 3 Episode 6: “This Must Be the Place”

Eunice Wong: Hello friends. It’s Eunice. I’m kicking off this episode solo because I feel like I want a moment alone to talk to you about this series—[“Whun“ melody cues in and grows louder]—just me to all of you. Up to now, me and my Toronto pals have been playing tour guide for Erika and Lauren, and maybe some, or a lot of you, have been wearing your devoted urbanist hats while we’re at it. But if I were to take off my urbanist hat and just get real with you for a second, I want to tell you what the city means to me. Toronto is more than just home to me. It’s an immigrant landing pad for my family. It’s a place where I can always see faces and hear languages that look and sound just like mine. And Toronto has just hosted some of the best food in the world. Period. And I’m so glad I got to share pieces of that, not just with Erika and Lauren, but with all of you Inhabit listeners as well.

[“Whun” melody fades out on echo]

This was always going to be an emotional episode, because it’s the last in the series. And I’m definitely already getting a little sappy, but I want us all to reflect on this. What is an emotional city?

[“Whun” melody, minor-key motif, cues in.]

One of our amazing guests this season, Dr. Zhixi Zhuang from Toronto Metropolitan University, she actually dropped “emotional city” to describe Toronto. And she dropped it literally when she was getting into the elevator after the interview, and we haven’t stopped thinking about it since.

Toronto is an emotional city. She’s right, and I really do believe our love languages—design, policy and research—unlock those emotions, everything from joy to grief, agony to ecstasy. So to wrap up this season, I want to reflect on what our guests have taught me about my home—about how to tease out and understand the emotions behind design, but also behind any space or place we inhabit.

But before we start getting all sappy again, there is one more person we talk to this series, and she’s going to help us bring it all together this last episode. I got the honor to chat with Mary Rowe, the president of the Canadian Urban Institute.

[Sound of urban environment cues in, rattling carts, low voices]

Mary Rowe: I gotta get bathrooms into parks—how do I do it? You know? I’ve got unsafe shelter environments. I’ve got parks that aren’t accessible. And I’ve got small businesses on main streets that their customer base is gone. I got empty office buildings. All that stuff, so—[Eunice in the background: All of it.] Yeah. So it’s been a wild ride. Almost four years I’ve been at the job, yeah.

[Mary’s voice continues underneath Eunice’s narration]

Eunice Wong: We met up for coffee on a sunny patio in Toronto’s Distillery District. So picture old distillery turn mixed-use residential neighborhood, art galleries [“Whun” melody major-key motif returns] chocolate shops, twinkly lights, all the good stuff.

Mary Rowe: And this is Balzac’s Coffee, that was really smart to start with coffee. And now, as you know, this is a vibrant place. We’re sitting, um, in an open area. You can hear that. There are umbrellas around us, and then there are these weird containers, small containers, that have small independent retail that look like they’re doing pop-ups. Next to us is a table of guys and one gal all wearing security vests off a construction site. Um, there’s a family with a couple of bambinos behind us. There goes a nice man walking by us. It looks like he’s exercising. [Can hear Mary moving closer and away from mic as she looks around] There’s a whole bunch of temporary structures and some really old structures and then some structures that are becoming permanent. So it’s, uh, and it’s windy [wind blowing into the mic], so it’s uh— And you can hear construction work, and I’m looking at parked cars and bikes, and I’m sure there are scooters, you know. There’s gonna be Segways passing. [Eunice: Segways!] Yeah, there are gonna be Segways passing at any moment.

Eunice Wong: Bringing it back to the very first episode—

Mary Rowe: Yeah, this is absolutely public space.

Eunice Wong: I had to start with defining public space.

[Low voices continue in the background along with birds chirping]

Mary Rowe: Well, there’s no constraint, really, to anybody wandering around here. Uh, so that’s one thing. I got a lot of birds too. Just commenting. I don’t even know who own this patio. I don’t know if this is Balzac’s patio. It might be Balzac’s table. I don’t know. The only thing you can see that’s sort of demarking, demarcating the space is a couple of those pop-up things that stood on—there’s a little sign there that’s sitting up on a plastic stand outside Balzac’s telling you that it’s Balzac’s. But it looks to me like, you know, I don’t feel anybody— I feel like nobody— I feel like I could come and sit down here and open a sandwich and nobody— that I packed at home and nobody would give me a rough time and it—And there are no fences particularly. I actually think I like “shared space” better than “public space.” I know that public space is a kind of preoccupation, because there’s a concern, and as you know, in the United States, there’s a particular concern—it’s coming here, too—that we are privatizing public space. And that somehow, if you privatize something, it becomes more at risk for being surveilled, and, and there starts to be kind of a kind of concern about, that it’ll be an oppressive space, that it won’t be welcoming to everybody.

But I am less worried about that because I think there can be privately owned spaces that are completely publicly accessible and not surveilled and delightful. And I know that I have colleagues who are concerned about this—that we’re eroding the public realm and allowing it to be privatized—but I’m not convinced that there aren’t ways to navigate shared spaces regardless of ownership, so—[Conversation ducks under Eunice’s voice]

Eunice Wong: I agree with Mary. I think I like “shared space” better than “public space,” too. It’s exactly what we’ve been doing a lot of this season: sharing space, sharing stories, sharing how places make us feel. And speaking of how places make us feel—throwback—last season, Erika and I got super-obsessed [laughs] with the movie Ratatouille. Yes, the Disney movie about Remy, the rat, that can cook. [“Notre Jour” by Mac Taboel cues in] There’s this one scene where Remy takes a strawberry—delicious—and cheese—also delicious—but when he puts it together, it creates fireworks. It’s magic, it’s euphoria, it’s all the feelings. So naturally, I had to ask Mary about her ratatouille moments. And she said that ratatouille moments are kind of like a metaphor for urban life.

Mary Rowe: Well, you know, I appreciate the cultural [Eunice chuckles] sort of frivolity of the ratatouille moment, but I also just want to say my version of that is, it has an economic significance. Because my version of that is Reese’s Pieces. Reese’s Pieces happened totally by accident. Basically chocolate and peanut butter bump into each other. They were being fabricated in some kind of way. And then suddenly somebody realized, Oh, sh—. You can put— [Eunice: It was an accident?!] Yeah, yeah. You can put peanut butter adjacent to chocolate and it tastes kind of good. So that ended up being a business model, right? That has created Reese’s Pieces, which are everywhere. Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups? I don’t know if you remember this. Anyway, that, to me, is— That, to me, is the little metaphor for urban life!

When I moved to New York, people said, you know, “Do you miss Toronto?” I said, No, but I miss New Orleans every day, because things happen in New Orleans that happen nowhere else. You know, you go around a corner and there’s a second line. Or there’s somebody, you know, with a barbecue who’s decided to make something with crawfish that they caught. You know, it’s a highly entrepreneurial, highly expressive culture with a lot of, a lot of permissiveness to put this out on my front porch. Like you can put a barbecue out on the front porch and start cooking something. You’re doing a crawfish boil, and everybody goes, Oh, great. I’ll go get a cup. [Music gets louder and ends on long note]

So we in North America, you know, we’ve created lots of safe environments and well-serviced environments, but we have to find our way then to how do we also [“Whun” major-key melody cues in] attach to the this more spontaneous, kind of unpredictable ratatouille places? And you can see it in what used to be called ethnic neighborhoods. We don’t call them that anymore, but Chinatown, um, areas that are populated by a particular ethnicity, and there is often a higher tolerance for different kinds of expression that is less rule based. [Eunice: improv—]

Eunice Wong: This season was full of ratatouille moments like these, from when we talked about jerk chicken on a shawarma spit to a parking lot turned magical public space. These moments make us feel something different, yet, right, like good design should. It reminds me of how Suresh Doss, local food guide, described third-wave cuisine back in Episode 2. It’s not just fusion, it’s evolution. It just makes sense. So come with me as I bring my friends Erika and Lauren back [“Home Is Everywhere” cues in] to reflect on what we learned from these moments this season that made us feel all sorts of emotions.

[Montage of moments from Inhabit team’s trip to Toronto]

Erika Eitland: [elevator dings] Hiiiii!!!!! Oh, we’ll see you later!

Eunice Wong: This is how people just get around underground.

Lauren Neefe: I have my first Presto card!

Erika Eitland: All I can think of is, like, what little, like, food things that I want to eat.

Eunice Wong: You see those little shipping containers? [Lauren: yes] They’ve been turned into these little small businesses. You can see kind of like a mosaic of a lot of the food cultures in Toronto.

Friend 1: Are we gonna go to the dumpling place?

Daniel: I’ll catch up with you guys.

Eunice Wong: Jamaican, Vietnamese … Erika!

Lauren Neefe: Yeah, we need to have some momo moments.

Eunice Wong: There poutine at one of them, I think. Japanese, yeah—

[Door opens and chimes a bell]

Suresh Doss: Hong? Can you recommend a latte for me?

Hong Dai: Um, yeah, sure.

Suresh Doss: I wanted to show you this one particular complex that really tells the story of North York and how gentrification may not always be bad. So the signature of the sangji bao, the Shanghai-style soup dumpling, is that the bottom has to be toasted. And it has to be this interesting gradient. [Oil fries in a wok in Dream of Yunnan] Like I would say, like, I hate to use the word “hidden gem” and whatnot. But this would be, by definition, a hidden gem. You’re not stumbling upon this place.

Erika Eitland: Oh my god, smell that. [Eunice laughs]

Suresh Doss: There’s only one bad place in here, and it’s not even bad. It’s mediocre—to my taste. But like, there are aces in this food court. Absolute aces. [Music trac pauses and then restarts]

Wes Reibeling: Alright have fun in the building!

Erika Eitland: Thank you, Wes!

Eunice Wong: 401 Richmond was a kind of historical warehouse-y industrial building. You hear the creaking of the flooring, hopefully. Yeah, I always love coming here, because you’re always kind of inspired by things on the walls. We’re going to the Spacing Store. It’s my favorite store in Toronto, literally, because it has all my nerdy kind of planning Toronto-history books.

Lauren Neefe: [in a near whisper] What’s the Casa Loma district?

Eunice Wong: [whispers back] Oh, it’s this beautiful castle. We should go, actually.

Corner Commons Community Organizer: Yes! Here at Jane and Finch, we love to support people.

Lauren Neefe: What do you see?

Torontonian 1: There’s an elephant on a ball. Looks great!

Lauren Neefe: Do you feel like you’re in public space?

Torontonian Kid: I feel like I’m squished. [Lauren giggles] What?

Lauren Neefe: What about you?

[“Home Is Everywhere” ends on a sweet chime]

Eunice Wong: Hi, friends.

Erika Eitland: [half-singing] Hello, Eunice. It’s homecoming episode! Hello, Lauren. Dr. Neefe, it’s just so wonderful to have you on this side of the mic for once.

Eunice Wong: Oh yeah.

Erika Eitland: You are our homecoming queen.

Lauren Neefe: I have to admit, I’m a little intimidated. Y’all are so good at this.

Erika Eitland: Oh my god, we’re in this together.

Eunice Wong: Yeah, we learn so much from you.

Erika Eitland: Also, you’ve been an important member of this scrappy team from the beginning, so it is only appropriate that you are here with us now.

Lauren Neefe: Um, how do y’all like my closet?

Erika Eitland: You know, you had to join us in the closet at some point, so— [Eunice belly-laughs] I love your sleeves. Great dress hemline. Wonderful.

Eunice Wong: I know. I love that pattern.

Lauren Neefe: I had a good friend who taught me to buy prints. And I’ve regressed since that friendship.

Eunice Wong: You’ve dropped the prints? You’re becoming an architect. The neutrals! Oh no!

Lauren Neefe: Poets, poets.

Erika Eitland: Oh my gosh. [Eunice giggles] I really missed you guys.

Lauren Neefe: I miss y’all too!

Eunice Wong: I miss you so much. I mean, this whole episode has obviously got me so emotional, and I don’t want to be alone in my emotions [Erika laughs] so I’m dragging you guys into it too.

Lauren Neefe: Thank you, Eunice.

Eunice Wong: I mean, I’m just feeling a little nostalgic about our time together.

Lauren Neefe: Same, same.

Erika Eitland: I mean, honestly, this has been an emotional season, even just from the word go, when I Ubered to Ossington—hashtag coolest street [Eunice laughs]—and saw so many people that look like me because of your long history of immigration multiculturalism in Canada. And it’s just that sense of being home that— I don’t know, Toronto will have a special place for me.

Eunice Wong: Yeah.

Erika Eitland: Lauren, what about you?

Lauren Neefe: You know, I, um, I live in Atlanta now, but I have that emotional reaction when my plane touches down in New York City, and I, like, take my first step up onto the street out of the subway. And I’m like, Ohhhhhhhh. I don’t know what wave I am on the immigration. My folks on my dad’s side came from Germany in the 1830s to Pennsylvania, and my mom’s side is all broken up. But when I take that step onto the sidewalk, it just makes sense. I, like, I make sense, you know?

Eunice Wong: Yeaaah.

Erika Eitland: That really resonates.

Lauren Neefe: But speaking of third wave, thinking about Toronto and getting emotional, it’s like, my first sip of Hong’s latte from Another Land Coffee, that was delicious.

Eunice Wong: Yum.

Lauren Neefe: I think I got the lychee.

Erika Eitland: I think I got the tiramisu one.

Eunice Wong: It was very good.

Erika Eitland: Yeah, it was very good.

Lauren Neefe: I remember she said it was like dessert in a cup.

Erika Eitland: That sounds right.

Eunice Wong: That’s exactly what it was.

Lauren Neefe: And what street was that on?

Erika Eitland: Uh, Yonge Street. Hashtag longest street of the world.

Lauren Neefe: Hashtag longest street!

Eunice Wong: So we got hashtag coolest street, hashtag longest street—

Erika Eitland: I mean, this is a whole season dedicated to public spaces and public realm—

Eunice Wong: Gotta call out your street facts, yeah. OK, so I have a couple questions for you two. I mean, beyond you know these fond memories and the lattes and maybe some of the Canadian snacks that I snuck into your bag,

Erika Eitland: All Dressed chips.

Lauren Neefe: Hey, you snuck snacks? What? I did not get any snacks.

Erika Eitland: I got snacks. Oh, yes.

Eunice Wong: So other than the snacks, is there anything you took home with you? Because I know after these three very quick but amazing days we spent together in Toronto and seeing all of my favorite public spaces, you both left to go home. So now I kind of want to hear how that trip and then just even this process of making the series and reflecting on it, has it changed the way you see your home? And obviously, because this is Inhabit, and Inhabit’s all about research, policy, design, and action—

Erika Eitland: Mmhmm.

Lauren Neefe: Actioon!

Eunice Wong: Exactly. I want to hear what lessons you’re taking back to your hometowns.

Lauren Neefe: Oh, OK, cool.

Erika Eitland: Lauren, do you mind if I start?

Lauren Neefe: Yes, please start, Dr. Eitland.

Erika Eitland: I am so glad we’re doing this, because, as you’ve noticed, both of you—I mean, Lauren, you have to listen to me mutter about this all the time—but like we are trying to, like, work Winchendon into our conversations, because I think we’ve been so focused on cities. And that’s just the nature of design and architecture. I mean, we call it urban design—like, we are not even trying to hide this bias. But early in the pandemic, I had the opportunity to buy my dream home with my partner, now husband—oh, Adam—

Eunice Wong: Adam! Love ya!

Lauren Neefe: Adam!

Erika Eitland: In north central Massachusetts. And so this is a place that’s actually pretty rural. It’s a town of just about 10,000 people, and boy, do we have some open space for you. [Lauren laughs] You know, to go 10 miles is 10 minutes here, right? So it’s a very different 10-minute radius.

Eunice Wong: I mean, that’s a good reality check for me as an urban designer. Everyone has different definitions of what that 10-minute walk to a park could be.

Lauren Neefe: Mmmmm.

Erika Eitland: I mean, you know, despite being so close to greenness, the power of these places is not always unlocked without the programming and events. And for a small town, I really— I really got to tip my hat to the scrappy and committed people at the Parks and Rec department. You know, this is not just Leslie Knope kind of stuff. [Lauren and Eunice laugh] This is really important. Because people, they make the parks come alive. It’s really important.

Lauren Neefe: I mean, Leslie cared. Leslie cared a lot! But I do love, Erika, how you always give credit to the people who are doing the hard work. People make parks come alive—because they’re in the park, but there’s also all that work that goes to making the park a space that people want to go to and feel happy to be in and feel emotional in.

Erika Eitland: Totally.

Lauren Neefe: But I seem to remember, Erika, that you have a story about a park that you want to share with us?

Erika Eitland: Yes, I do. Mm. Thank you for remembering, Lauren. So for this homecoming episode—you know, once a podcaster, always a podcaster—I ended up bringing my mic to our third annual Food Truck Festival, that’s located at Cannon Memorial Park. So imagine, you know, a quaint little gazebo, a monument, literal cannons—as the name would suggest—which has become play equipment for kids—

Eunice Wong: Interesting.

Lauren Neefe: OK. Patriotic.

Erika Eitland: Right. [Laughs] Patriotic. Yes. But it’s placed, you know, across the street from this magnificent brick school building, built in 1887. I love me a school—

Lauren Neefe: Yeah, you know schools.

Erika Eitland: [laughs] I do. But now it is at the heart of our community because it’s our senior center. That same patch of green is also home to two old school buildings that will be renovated into 44 units of affordable veterans housing thanks to just years of hard work.

Lauren Neefe: Niiiiice. That’s super exciting.

Erika Eitland: I’m very excited. So on a warm summer afternoon—

[Sound of food truck festival fades in]

Adam Gardner at Food Festival: I see taco fan. And there’s a big live stage—

[Hard rock starts to play.]

With battle of the bands in the background. I wanted to understand why people came out to Winchendon. Why did they come to Cannon Memorial Park. And really why a food truck festival is important to a small town like ours.

Erika at Food Festival: Helloo! You’re exactly who I was looking for.

Festival-goer 1: What are you doing? Hi, Adam.

Erika Eitland: OK, we are— I am recording a podcast [Cross-fade] Why is this food festival in Winchendon so important?

Festival-goer 1: Well, I would say, prior to this food festival, we didn’t have hardly any events in Winchendon. So this is bringing people from Winchendon together, but it’s bringing lots of people from around town together. This is bringing money to our town, which we need. And it’s bringing new food of different cultures to our town, which we also need.

Festival-goer 2: What brought me here today was the community of this event. It’s such a fun time for people to gather and enjoy a couple of different tasty plates of food. It’s a beautiful day. And we thought we’d come enjoy it with the town and offer our Italian ice slushes.

Erika Eitland: And what brought you out here today?

Festival-goer 3: Um, I’m the chair of the Youth Council, so I’m really here to see how everybody’s doing, see what people like, and, of course, help out.

Erika Eitland: What was your favorite food today so far?

Festival-going Kid 1: We haven’t really had anything.

Festival-going Kid 2: So far the boba.

Festival-going Kid 1: Um, my grandmother gave me a strawberry from over there, yeah.

Erika Eitland: Was it a good strawberry?

Festival-going Kid 1: Yeah.

Festival-going Kid 2: Also why I think that it’s important for Winchendon to have this is probably because a lot of small businesses get to come here. And they have a lot of festivals, which means that a lot of small businesses get to make a lot of money and improve their business. Because a lot of people come here. Like, just look—there’s a lot of people.

Festival-going Kid 3: We also came here to be together.

[Festival soundscape fades out]

Eunice Wong: Erika, That was beautiful and adorable. And I love the kids that you interviewed as well. I think they remind me of, you know, the kids in our very first episode when we were outside the Art Gallery of Ontario, and these kids are just calling it out. They know why public spaces matter. [Erika: The invisible rope.] The invisible rope, exactly. I mean, these, these little geniuses.

Erika Eitland: Yeah, I feel like this is the powerful piece. You know, what are our spaces for? They are our legacy. To think that our youth don’t see the importance of community development, of, you know, the invisible ropes around the Couch Monster. Those things are signaling to them what public space is and isn’t. And, like Toronto, our food represents our identity, our legacy, our economics. And this green space and the parking spaces that these food trucks are on are actually supporting community building, intergenerational gathering and recreation. Just, they make Winchendon such a beautiful place to live. And yet, across this whole season, we’ve had to really ask the question, How do we make these spaces truly accessible for everyone? If they’re called public spaces, are they truly public?

You know, I love me some numbers.

Eunice Wong: Bring it on.

Erika Eitland: Here we go. One in 6 people are over 65 years old here in Winch. One in 5 children are living in poverty. So when we are talking about programming in public space, it really requires the creativity and consideration that we’ve heard this entire season.

Eunice Wong: Even just in our last episode about parks, we were talking about how these shared community spaces are even more important for vulnerable populations. And to your point about intergenerational gathering, this actually even goes back to what Dr. Zhuang talked about—about how seniors use public spaces—even their parking lots in the midst of COVID, for things like socializing, sharing food, or even just for tai chi.

Lauren Neefe: I am seeing so many parking lots used for all kinds of social gatherings.

Erika Eitland: We have so many parking lots in Winchendon. So if you all want to come—

Eunice Wong: Let’s activate some parking lots!

Lauren Neefe: Let’s do it!

Erika Eitland: We’ve got some blank canvases.

Lauren Neefe: I love that.

Erika Eitland: You know, since we were in Toronto, I was also elected for local office.

Eunice Wong: Wooo!

Lauren Neefe: Congratulations, Erika!

Erika Eitland: So many of these conversations—Dr. Zhuang, thinking about parks—have really become important lessons I’ve taken back while serving my community. And so the first one is Sangji Fried Bao are delicious. And small spaces mean small businesses can afford to take the risk and grow if they’re successful. Sangji Fried Bao used to be in a smaller location. Now it’s in a bigger, beautiful space. That evolution holds true in Winchendon. So I want to shout out to Amy, the owner of PJ’s Slush Shop, that has activated a part of our Winchendon Historical Society with some flavorful Italian ices in a way that’s affordable for her.

Lauren Neefe: What’s the best flavor?

Erika Eitland: I’m a watermelon— I’m a watermelon girlie.

Eunice Wong: Thanks, I’m hungry now.

Erika Eitland: I know. Yeah. All right No. 2. I was just reflecting on the magic of Corner Commons and all that Ernestine and Clara shared. We need places that inspire, spark joy, and showcase that there’s a community that cares and loves this place. We’re in a town where when you drive through, there’s buildings that don’t look particularly loved. And yet, the entrepreneurs, the scrappy believers, the relentless youth in Winchendon are starting to make something special happen here. So this may be the first time you all heard of Winchendon, Massachusetts, but I promise, it will not be the last if I have anything to do with it.

Lauren Neefe: I believe you.

Eunice Wong: I mean, that’s kind of what Inhabit and us three have always advocated for, right? [Lauren: right.] Like it shouldn’t just be the capital-D designers, the capital-A architects that get invited to this party or this process. But it’s those, as you called them, scrappy believers that help turn those spaces into places.

Erika Eitland: Yes. And speaking of spaces and places, No. 3. Public space is not just outdoors. So of course parks, parking lots are important, but so are our senior centers, our civic spaces, our libraries…. These are public spaces that require the same programming, maintenance, creativity. And let’s be honest: Winchendon is a cold place, much like Toronto. And so Boston will have rain and we’ll have three feet of snow. So for us, just outdoor public spaces is not enough to make sure that we’re showing up for everyone year-round. We need to also think about the same care for our interior recreation spaces and make sure that they’re adaptable and flexible.

[Food festival bands fade in again.]

Adam Gardner at Food Festival: There’s a lot going on—

Erika Eitland: So just a few lessons I wanted to share, because they’ve really informed my life back in Winchendon.

Erika at the Food Festival: Why is the truck festival like important to our town?

Eva Martin at the Food Festival: It just brings, like, our close-knitted community even more together, and that’s what I like about it. It brings everyone together.

Erika at the Food Festival: Amazing, and what’s your name?

Eva Martin at the Food Festival: My name’s Eva Martin.

[Food festival soundscape fades out.]

Lauren Neefe: Well, Erika, Winchendon sounds like an awesome place.

Erika Eitland: Yay!

Eunice Wong: Right?

Lauren Neefe: And they are very lucky to have you.

Erika Eitland: Thank you!

Lauren Neefe: Speaking of lessons learned, I guess it’s my turn now? I feel like my charge to myself coming back to Atlanta from Toronto is, like, collect and store the data that Google isn’t designed to capture.

Eunice Wong: OK, cool, Lauren, give Google a run for its money. [Erika laughs.] But how exactly are you going to do that? [Erika laughs]

Lauren Neefe: Hmmm, yeah, I guess that’s kind of hard, but here’s what I mean. And I’m gonna call back one more moment from Episode 1, reaching all the way back to our first Numbers, Names, and ’Nomes. What I mean is, I wanna be the literal “eyes on the street” that Jane Jacobs talked about. And not in the creepy “See Something, Say Something” way, but in the wake-up-and-dare-to-know kind of way. Like, Who are these streets and buildings named for? What was here before me? Who is actually responsible for salting the sidewalks when it snows? Or maintain the trees on hell strips? You can Google that, but we’ll put it in the show notes. [Eunice laughs] And then, instead of hoarding all that delicious data, I’ll sign up for a Jane’s Walk in 2025, so I have to teach others about the places we inhabit. So that’s my take home to Atlanta. Just one, but it has a lot of parts to it.

Eunice Wong: I love that. To recap: Do a Jane’s Walk. Research street names. Share what you know with your neighbors. I think these are all just such great lessons, Lauren, for the nondesigner folks among us.

Erika Eitland: Totally.

Lauren Neefe: Oooooh, fantastic! I feel like an Inhabit host now. OK, but Eunice, friend.

Eunice Wong: Hi!

Lauren Neefe: We spent all of three days in Toronto, but it was an epic journey. You, Eunice, and Daniel and Vinaya and Ashita and Paul and Zahra and Suresh and Zhixi and Ernestine and Clara [“Home Is Everywhere” cues in] and Wes and Adri— Who am I forgetting?

Eunice Wong: Peanut! You forgot Peanut.

Lauren Neefe: Peanut! Of course! Peanut! And, oh! And the folks in Trinity Bellwoods and outside the AGO. All of you were gracious and brilliant hosts. You really lived up to your Canadian reputation. Did your country and city proud.

Eunice Wong: Aw, Lauren! I’m gonna cry!

Lauren Neefe: Don’t cry! It’s a beautiful thing. You made us feel at home, and I’m a bit jealous, actually. Toronto is your first home and forever home, and that’s an emotional relationship I long for but know I can never have.

Eunice Wong: Oh, Lauren. [Sighs] Dr. Producer Lauren. I know there is space that feels like your home out there waiting for you to claim it. You know, it could be a Cinnabon chair. It could be a parking lot. If there’s anything I want people to take away from this whole series, it’s that well-designed places are places that invite us to be ourselves in public, to make ourselves at home. So I hope this trip to Toronto and sharing a slice of my life helped you all reflect on what defines home, but also what role design has in the emotions we feel—naturally. [Music pauses] So on that note, Inhabit listeners [Music cues back in] from the most diverse city with the longest street and the coolest street and food halls that you can’t find on Google and all the parking lots that need reclaiming and all the juicy things in this delicious dumpling of a city, we are here for you. So I hope you come visit. But in the meantime, I say you go for a walk. Talk to your neighbors. Share a bench with a stranger. Support a local coffee shop. Or just touch some grass. Let yourself get emotional. [Music stops on unresolved note.] But speaking of a walk, I think my dog is asking for one.

Inhabit chorus [with final chime of music track]: Inhabit.

[Three second pause, then “Everyday Bliss” cues in.]

Erika Eitland: You are listening to Inhabit. I’m Dr Erika Eitland.

Eunice Wong: I’m Eunice Wong.

Lauren Neefe: And I’m Dr Lauren Neefe. We have a fabulous website at inhabit.perkinswill.com. There are show notes, pictures, and links to all the resources and references we mentioned on the show. Our music is from Epidemic Sound.

Eunice Wong: A big thank-you to Mary Rowe for spending some time with me over a coffee and sharing her wisdom with us.

Erika Eitland: We are grateful to have Dr Lauren Neefe on today’s episode—on top of producing and editing the whole show.

Lauren Neefe: Aw, thanks. I love sharing this space with y’all.

Eunice Wong: Have you seen our amazing illustrations by Julio Brenes? If not, find them on Instagram and follow us @inhabit.podcast.

Lauren Neefe: Inhabit is a member of the Surround Podcast Network. That means we’re cousins with some of the best architecture and design podcasts around: Clever, Deep Green, Design Tangents, Barriers to Entry, Design Nerds Anonymous. We are all on surroundpodcasts.com.

Eunice Wong: We have an amazing advisory board that supported us throughout this whole series. Thank you to Mide Akinsade, Yanel de Angel, Casey Jones, Paul Kulig, Yehia Madkour, Angela Miller, Rachel Rose, Kimberly Seigel, Gautam Sundaram, and Stephanie Wolfgang.

Erika Eitland: And thank you to all of you, listeners. Keep up the hard work. It takes everyone to change everything.

[“Everyday Bliss” gets louder.]

Perkins&Will Chorus: People, first and foremost, Places, Power—

[“Everyday Bliss” lands on final note and lingers]

Perkins&Will Chorus: Design, Change, Now.

Lauren Neefe: A Perkins&Will podcast.

[Surround Podcast mnemonic. Then three seconds of silence.]

Festival-going Kid 1: What’s your podcast called?

Erika Eitland: It’s called Inhabit.

Festival-going Kid 1: Inhabit?

Erika Eitland: Yeah, like the places we inhabit.

Festival-going Kid 2: Do you go on YouTube?

Erika Eitland: We do go on YouTube, but we’re on Spotify and all sorts of other places.

Festival-going Kid 2: Are you on Tiktok?

Erika Eitland: I wish I was on TikTok. You gotta teach me how to be on TikTok, though. [Kid giggles] We’ll work on that. Next time.

Festival-going Kid 2: I’m gonna listen to it on Spotify.

Erika Eitland: OK. PJ, what was your favorite food today?

Festival-going Kid 2: Also by the way my name’s Kalina, and hers is Kalisi.

PJ: My favorite food was probably— I actually haven’t had any food.

Erika Eitland: You haven’t had any food yet?! Oh, we gotta get to that.

Kalina: He runs a food truck!

Erika Eitland: I know. And what was your name again?

Kalina: Well, he had a slushy, but Kalina, and her name is—

Kalisi: Kalisi.

Erika Eitland: Nice to meet you both.

PJ: And my name is PJ.

Kalina: Wait, have you been, like, recording this?

Erika Eitland: Yeah!

PJ: Coooool.